The Continental Congress selected George Washington as the commander in chief of the newly formed Continental Army in June of 1775 . But why him ? Why Washington ? What challenges did Washington face organizing the army ? How did his leadership and strategy affect the outcome of the war ? For answers to these questions and more army history insights , stay tuned . Welcome to the US Army History and Heritage podcast , the official podcast of the United States Army Center of Military History . The Center of Military History writes and publishes the Army's official history , manages the US Army Museum Enterprise , and provides historical support throughout the US Army . Hello everyone and welcome to the United States Army History and Heritage podcast . I'm Lee Reynolds , the strategic communications officer for the Center of Military History . In this episode , we're discussing the military career and leadership of General George Washington . Joining me for this discussion is Army historian Doctor John Moss . Welcome , John . Thank you , Lee . I'm glad to be here and uh I always enjoyed talking about George Washington . Well , before we get into the questions , uh , let me just remind folks who you are . So Doctor John R . Moss is an education specialist and historian at the National Museum of the United States Army . He received a PhD in early US history and military history from the Ohio State University . His most recent book is From Trenton to Yorktown , Turning Points of the Revolutionary War . Well , John , you , you know , I know you've , uh , you , you focused a lot of your time on the colonial period . So , um , and as you said , you love talking about George Washington . So , uh , you , you're , you're , you're a great person for this conversation here . Now , as I mentioned earlier , the Continental Congress appointed Washington as commander in chief of this newly formed Continental Army in June of 1775 . But , um , you know , why ? Yeah , why , why was Washington selected ? How had he proven himself in the military beforehand ? And , uh , if you could just talk a bit , a little bit about his , his , his background . Sure . So , well , thank you for having me on the podcast today . I'm glad to be here . Um , Washington and his early military career . So when Washington was a young man in his early 20s , um , 1 of the biggest influences in his life was his older half-brother Lawrence Washington . And Lawrence Washington was a Virginia militia officer prior to the French and Indian War , and Washington admired him . He saw the dignity and the usefulness and adventure of being a soldier . Lawrence had served in colonial service with the British 10 to 12 years earlier , so he was a veteran . And Washington started to lean that way at a very early age , and his brother died before the French and Indian War . Washington was appointed to be one of the militia inspectors , meaning basically a commander of part of the militia in the colony of Virginia . When the French and Indian War started , which was largely due to his actions at the forks of the Ohio , which is now Pittsburgh , uh , but before that , Washington became commander . Of the Virginia regiment , which was not a militia regiment . It was a regiment of provincials which was created and formed and organized and paid for by the colony for the specific purposes of the war . So this was , this was a military unit that was uniformed , equipped with officers and not , not a civilian group of volunteers . These men were paid , and Washington was the commander , and So he served in 3 campaigns during the French and Indian War , which is where he got all of his military experience . The first one was at Fort Necessity in what's now Western Pennsylvania . That was not a great day for George . He had to surrender the fort on , of all days , July 4th , 1754 . The next year he served as a volunteer aide to a very large British effort to take the French position at Fort Duquesne , which is where Pittsburgh is now . And the British devoted artillery and supplies , to regiments of red coats , the Virginia Regiment . Many of the officers that Washington would later serve with and against were in that expedition , including Horatio Gates . Charles Lee and some others . So Washington was on the commander's staff . It was commanded by General Edward Braddock , and Washington served as a volunteer aide , and that expedition marched from Alexandria , Virginia out toward Fort Duquesne and about Oh , I , I , I want to say probably 8 to 10 miles before getting there , they were attacked by waiting French troops , just a handful , but mostly their Native American allies , and it was a disaster for Braddock . He was mortally wounded , but Washington , Washington acquitted himself well , as did the Virginians . Uh , so he , he got , he got known for being not only brave but also competent and fearless . And then his final , his final experience was with another expedition to take the Fort Duquesne , and this 1 3rd time's the charm . He served in what was known as the Forbes campaign led by Brigadier General John Forbes , and that came out of Carlisle , Pennsylvania , and eventually Fort Duquesne was abandoned and blown up by the French . The British occupied it , so that was successful , and that was in the end of that actually didn't wind up until very late in November 1758 , and that was Washington's last expedition prior to the Revolutionary War . So Um , he was appointed , as you mentioned , in June 1775 as the commander of forces around Boston , and I would say it's mostly for two reasons . Number one , he had , as I just described , he had a lot of experience in the field , not always successful , but he did , he did know how to be on campaign . He knew how to work with soldiers . While he wasn't on campaign . He was the commander in the Shenandoah Valley in Winchester and responsible for the defenses against Indian attacks , all from basically the Potomac River all the way down to the North Carolina border . There was a series of small forts and Um , so he did have a lot of experience and people knew him and , and they knew that he was um on these campaigns . He met a lot of British and American officers during this campaigning , so it wasn't a random thing that he , that he was that that he was chosen . But the , the other factor was all of the troops in Boston that were now in open rebellion against the British were New Englanders . They were all from New England states . Uh , well , at the time they were still colonies . So in order to get more of a literal continental flavor and activity and buy-in , as we would say today , from the colonies toward the south , the Congress decided that they needed an officer from the South . And of course there was George Washington to make this a continental fight , you know , yes , yeah , and , you know , continental , yeah , OK , yeah , and to get everybody together as much as they could . Now Washington wore his uniform to Congress , and that was a big advertisement saying pick me , pick me , right ? Um , he was a congressman at the time . He was , he was in the continent , this was the 2nd Continental Congress meeting in Philadelphia and just to clarify , many , many secondary books that are , that are , that have come out today , um . They'll say that he was wearing his French and Indian War uniform at the Continental Congress . Well , no , no , nobody's gonna wear a 15 year old uniform , OK ? They wouldn't do it today . We wouldn't come to work in a , in , in , in a suit and tie that was 2020 years old , right ? So , um , he was wearing the uniform of the Fairfax County , Virginia militia , and that was a blue coat with kind of with buff facings . And that's what he wore , and he wound up wearing a version of those colors for the rest of the war . And another way to look at it , Leah , is the other folks who might have taken over the position of the commander at Boston . Uh , some of them were French and Indian War veterans but were , but were seen as too old , um , and , uh , there really wasn't another kind of bright star like this , uh , in America at the time , uh , that was , that was regarded as being a rational choice . So , um , were there others in competition that were trying to get the job also ? I've seen it written that Charles Lee might have been . He certainly wanted it afterwards , and Horatio Gates , who was a very competent administrative officer , he was on the Braddock's campaign . He was a former British officer . In fact , he was even , even rose to the rank of Major , and he was living in America at the time . And possibly he might have toyed with it or others might have . Uh , some in Congress actually thought the position should go to John Hancock , uh , but Hancock really did not have military experience other than to kind of be an administrator , someone who would marshal and pay for supplies , get them to where they needed to be , um , so that , that really wasn't , um , and he was a New Englander too , so he was , yeah , but , which is something that they , they didn't want just to make that . Make it a continental army . Yes , absolutely . Good . That those are great insights . And just one point to clarify then , um , Washington was never a member of the British Army . No , he was not . No , he was , he was not . He , he sought a commission and , um . But he was never given one during the French and Indian War , and he also , he also tried to have the British army administratively include the Virginia regiment as a British regiment in the colonies , and that did not work either , so he tried hard . He did , he did , yeah . Well , great . No , that's , that's fantastic background . Uh , and , and I've certainly learned a lot from , uh , from that about his background , some things I , I , I never knew about . But , um , but so let's , let's start moving forward then . Uh , so Washington now is the commander in chief . He's sworn in and he immediately , um , makes his way up to Boston to take command of the , uh , army of observation and make it the Continental Army . Um , so what were some of his challenges ? I mean , it , it couldn't have been easy in , you know , in , um , initially for him . So how , how , how did he start running things , and , uh , there were clearly challenges , um , you know , what , what were those and how did he overcome them ? Well , he recognized immediately that the army needed to be organized . Um , there were , uh , there , there were , there were troops from various states under , uh , excuse me , colonies . Under colonial leaders , they really weren't organized the way we would see the Continental Army later . There were , there were companies of militia . There were , there were private , private military companies . Some of them were put into regiments by the colonies . Others were just kind of loose units hanging around . So he was able to see that that had to be , that had to be straightened out right away . He needed brigadier generals . He needed , he needed regimental commanders , and in what we would call today , as you know , a table of organization and equipment , a TOE . So that was a challenge . The biggest one though , I think from reading his correspondence , which is , which is full of demands for more supplies . There was a , he was in a famous letter he mentions how shocked he was by how little gunpowder there was in the Boston area to the point where he thought that if , if he could get it all together and made up into cartridges , each of his soldiers , each of his soldiers . would only have about 6 rounds in their cartridge boxes . Um , and the British did not know that . Um , and he wrote , I believe , I could be wrong on this , but I think , I think it was to his brother , one of his brothers , that he was shocked into silence for about 20 minutes when he , when he found that , uh , how little powder they had . Um , he also had to make the camps sanitary because a lot of these soldiers in the militia and the and and regiments that the colonies raised , a lot of them were young , never been away from home before , never had been in a in a city . And not only was Boston a city , but Cambridge and the surrounding areas where thousands and thousands of colonists in armed units were now together . That was , that was a big population center , and there was disease . There was poor sanitation , poor , poor storage and handling of food supplies . The food had to come from somewhere . It had to be distributed equally , evenly . Uh , who , who was , there was also the question . Who was going to pay these people ? Was it the Continental Congress ? Was it the individual colonies ? Who was going to uniform them ? Who was going to feed them ? And all these kind of , uh , you know , it's one thing for minutemen and individuals to have a musket or a fowler or a rifle . With , uh , you know , a little bit of powder for hunting , protection , that , but , but when , when everybody comes together and brings their own weapons , they're all kinds of calibers , which means you have to have all kinds of ammunition and know how to distribute it . So administratively it was , um , you know , it was quite a , quite an ordeal . Now he did get experience . And when he was the commander of the Virginia regiment in the French and Indian War , he spent 1756 , 1757 , and 1758 as commander of the Virginia regiment . In the Shenandoah Valley , partially in Maryland , um , also in Southwest Virginia , kind of , if , if folks are familiar with , there were some forts in the area between Roanoke and the North Carolina border . So he did have an idea . He had also been with Braddock's campaign for , for those months , and he saw how British officers and And NCOs , supply sergeants , how they got things done . So those and remember all this in face of the enemy who was sitting in Boston and could come out at any time if they had , you know , chosen to do so . This wasn't . This was , he wasn't 50 miles away . He was , he was right overlooking Boston while this was all going on . I know , uh , there were about 10 of our , uh , current army branches , um , created . In the first few months of , um , um , of the Continental Army being in existence , so June , July , and then I , I think again later than in , in November . So what was his role in creating these ? Well , I , I , I'm not sure how overt some of the creations were . I know that the um Adjutant general's uh uh section um that we would have today that that had to be done immediately and I believe I believe that was the first one because and that's where Gates of June , yeah , OK , that's where , that's where Horatio Gates came in . He was appointed a general . um I can't remember whether it was a brigadier general or a major general . Uh , and , and took over that . He's he's considered to be the first adjutant general of the US Army , did a tremendous job , and that's in , in , you know , kind of fast forwarding to Saratoga in 1777 . 1 of his greatest attributes in that victorious campaign was his ability to get people , get , get troops raised , supplied , equipped , and to the and to the right places at the right time . and that was a large part of his success in that campaign . Um , but Washington , you know , Washington and its staff , which was , which was really kind of a bunch of volunteers , and there was no , um , you know , general staff as we know it today or , or general staff that the , you know , Germans created in the late 19th century , um . Um , you know , Washington , you know , starting in Boston and certainly in New York later on during the war , he was his own spymaster . He was his own organizer of intelligence , and he , he collated and collected and tried to analyze the intelligence as best he could , and , you know , we don't , we don't see , you know , Eisenhower or , or , or . Uh , modern generals doing that , Norman Schwartzkopf doing that in their , in their barracks or tents or headquarters at night saying , oh my God , which one's right ? So , so this was quite a burden on Washington and , and , you know , many , many listeners might be interested in knowing . That until from 1775 , from June of 1775 , Until September of 1781 , Washington never went home . And he was rarely away from the army . Very few times did he ever leave , uh , even during Valley Forge . Uh , anytime that that he needed to confer with Congress , it was usually the congressman coming to the camps and , and not him leaving the camps . Uh , he was always present . Yeah , I mean , that's great leadership right there , you know , um , and , uh , so how long did it take for him to really organize things to be the way that , that he felt at least . Comfortable . I know , I think it continued to progress throughout the war , but at what point did he feel like he had a functioning army ? Well , the army was certainly better organized by the summer of 1776 . Now that doesn't mean that they , they were drilled and trained , but they certainly could . They were brigaded . They were put into divisions . Um , the , the , the commanders of these divisions and brigades , hit or miss , but he was able to field and move them and march them around . I would say the turning point , which many historians have , this is nothing I'm adding to historical knowledge out of , out of nothing , but the Valley Forge experience . and really molding the officers and the troops into Uh , uh , a force that could be moved around a battlefield , um , that , that the officers knew what their jobs were and the division commanders , Lafayette . Uh , some of the brigade commanders like Anthony Wayne and Lord Sterling , um , the , these folks had experience . Now , some of the lesser , less competent ones had been moved out and kind of given assignments to positions that were not with Washington's army . So I , I think it was , it was , it was , as you said , it was , it's a year , years-long process . Um , I think the advantage in Boston though , Lee , was that the , the number of troops they were able to get and keep in the field on the American side on the heights around Boston intimidated the British to some extent . Now , you know , Washington , you know , contemplated , you know , do we attack ? Do we try to force them out and The , as , as long as the British Navy had more ships in the harbor , that was never gonna happen . Um that was just way too risky , but eventually , um , eventually , uh that changed um by , by '78 . And uh so let's talk a little bit about strategy at this point . So I'm , I'm curious as to , you know , what was his plan to win this war ? And I know that um it's often been talked about by historians , um , something called the Fabian strategy . Um , due to the British army's , uh , greater numbers and , and , you know , abilities on the battlefield , so can you explain what the Fabian strategy was , and , you know , was that his actual plan ? Uh , Fabian strategy that comes from the , um , the Roman , uh , the Roman wars of ancient history . Fabius , uh , was a general , and , and his , um , His , his strategy , uh , which , uh , the true definition and uh of a Fabian strategy is to avoid any type of battle , uh , wear down your opponent , um , make the contest , uh , costly and lengthy , um , For your opponent , um . You know , And and and attack . Detachments when you have the chance . If you if there's a , if there's a garrison left that seems to be weak and you can , you can mobilize a larger force and pick that off or capture it or destroy it . Um , and , and that for a long time has been the estimation of Washington's strategy , but it , it may look like that , and to an extent you can , you can see , well , he , he wouldn't attack here , he wouldn't attack there , he didn't risk a battle here . But that really wasn't his , his desire . It , it , he , he didn't , he didn't have a A staff meeting and say , OK guys , we're going Fabian , right ? We're we're that did not happen and you can see that because um one of the , one of his , one of his strategies during the entire war and and objectives was to take back New York City . They lost the Washington and his army lost New York City by the end of November of 1776 after being defeated . At the Battle of Long Island and then Harlem Heights and White Plains , Kipps Bay , forced to cross . New Jersey into Pennsylvania by December of 1776 . And the British made a colossal mistake that Washington took advantage of , and it's surprising actually . And what that mistake was , was that their thousands and thousands of troops were spread out from New York to Trenton . And that that was to better house them in a in a very rural country . It was easier to supply them locally that way , but it made each one of those small garrisons very vulnerable , and the one that Washington chose to attack was the farthest away from New York City , which was a garrison of 3 Hessian regiments at Trenton . And so he attacked there and was successful and several days later attacked another garrison or another detachment at Princeton . That's , that's not really a Fabian strategy . That's an , that's an offensive strategy . And there's many , many instances that , that historians could , could point to where in councils of war that he had , which , by the way , the Continental Congress required him to have councils of war , that was part of his commission . And where he would raise the question , should we attack Philadelphia before we go into winter quarters in 1777 , and some people voted , some of the generals voted yes , most voted no , and so Washington didn't . But he , he was , there are many instances of him wanting to attack New York , wanting to attack Philadelphia to try , and we're talking frontal assaults against fixed positions . Against the main garrisons , he was successful largely in attacking the rear guard of the British Army when they were marching from Philadelphia to New York and there was the Battle of Monmouth Courthouse in New Jersey . Um , It it was a lot easier to do this when the French came in because all of a sudden the Americans , the Americans had a naval ally . And so , once really once the French arrived in America , particularly in 1780 , you know , some , some French troops started coming in 1778 , 1979 , but really when Rochambeau's French expedition that had both French infantry regiments and A naval assets . There was no more Fabian strategy . The French weren't going to come over here and say , Oh , OK , let's try that , you know , that's not the way they did it . And all of a sudden Washington had more men , more supplies , more uniforms , and big boats with cannons on them to go against the British ships . So really , if , if you're gonna , if you're going to say anything about a Fabian strategy , uh , once , once the French arrived in force , that , that was done , that was , that was , that was done . Talking about the French , you know , this is , uh , they became our ally in 1778 . And uh you talked about councils of war also . Did Washington start having , including the French in these councils of war , and then what was their combined strategy ? No , um , Washington met and certainly , certainly conferred with uh the French officers Rochambeau , um , uh , uh , others , um , Comte de Sta , uh , Comte de Grasse , uh . In the Yorktown campaign certainly , but also in in there were , there were some , there was a famous large conference in Wethersfield , Connecticut right after the French arrived , and it was Rochambeau in Washington and Uh , Lafayette and Greene , Knox , those , those officers and that , so they , they , they weren't voting for things and uh the French King Louis the 16th , he , he , he told his French officers , Washington's the commander , not you , and , and , and yes , now Washington knew how far he could go with that , and the French also New , uh , with , with , with some , with some smiles and manners and courtly bearing , you could kind of , they could kind of tell Washington , uh , I don't think that's a good idea . And , and the , the best example of that . is again Washington in 1780 . His army's on the Hudson River north of New York City , and now he's got some French assistance . He wanted to attack New York and a head-on attack or an amphibious landing on Manhattan Island , and the French weren't , the French weren't interested . Part of it was their ships were a little bit larger than the British ships . Their ships had a A lower draft in the water , meaning that their ships sat lower in the water , and the , the French naval officers did not think that they could pass the bar , um , uh , the sandbars around New York Harbor . And so that , that never happened . There was never an attack on New York . There were some faints . There was , there was a , there was a brief campaign on Staten Island at one point , but Um , Washington used the , the Allies , um , really in 1780 . There were some false starts . And was , was some of that done to , uh , to keep , um , you know , a majority of British forces inside New York ? Was that part of the strategy that , that was , yes , that was the British headquarters from 1776 until 1783 in , in , in America , other , other than Canada , other than , uh , other than Canada . Um , And the French just were not buying into that . There was some , there was , there was an attack on Savannah , Georgia that was defeated by the British , and there were some sour grapes between the Americans and the French who participated in that . Um , Newport , uh , it's called the Battle of Rhode Island , but really it's , it's in the Newport and , and the , the island called Rhode Island , not , not the entire state . And there were some difficulties working together with American forces under General John Sullivan , some , some very hard feelings that the Navy didn't support the armies well enough , and it really , it wasn't until 1780 that with Rochambeau's arrival , who was very , very cooperative with Washington . And um uh that's , that's when kind of things started getting better . Um , as far as cooperation and success , uh , and as , as , as you probably know , um , the Yorktown campaign relied on a lot of very lucky timing , and Washington took away , Washington took advantage of that . Yeah , and , um , what role did Lafayette play in , in helping to , I , I guess , coordinate directly with the French . That's a good question . And actually , my , my current book project right now is writing writing a history of Lafayette in America from when he arrived until when he went home after Yorktown . And Lafayette's role was , you know , in a prosaic way , a translator , although John , although Washington staff officers , John Lawrence spoke fluent French and Alexander Hamilton was pretty good too . Yeah , I was just wondering if Washington used him to his advantage , you know , using that relationship . Now we have to remember Lafayette left France with no authorization to do so , and in fact he was warned by the court at Versailles not to do that , and his fabulously wealthy father-in-law also told him not to do that . So when he was , when he was prevented from coming , Um , he , he did what , what any rich French aristocrat would do is he bought his own ship and sailed to America . That's the easy way to do it , right ? That's problem solved . So , um , so he actually had an American commission . He was an American Major General in the Continental Army . He was not a French general serving with Washington . And he was very young and very wealthy and had very little experience . And so , but , but by the time that these French officers , both army and navy , Arrived in 1780 , Lafayette had about 2 or more years of experience , and , uh , but they , the , these French officers , they , they really weren't keen on him . Um , they , they , they , yeah , there was , there was a good bit I'm , I'm finding in , in reading letters and Um , as I do my research and move forward , which I'm , I'm not nearly done yet , but they , they were , they were very , um , standoffish . Uh , Rochambeau , Rochambeau understood Lafayette and Lafayette understood him , and they had a couple of spats , but papered everything over , um , but he , he wasn't , um . He wasn't embraced by the other officers that came over at all . So I wanna get back to something you talked about earlier , you know , when we talked about the selection of Washington as the commander in chief and were there other people , uh , and , and you had mentioned that , you know , maybe not upfront , but later on during the war , there were others who challenged him . And can you just , uh , just briefly touch on , um , some of those challenges , why they came up by who ? Um , uh , from other leaders , or , you know , in , in , in some of the dark times of the Revolutionary War , things weren't looking good , and did Congress ever challenge his leadership too ? Um , that happened , um , in the late fall , beginning of the late fall of 1777 through the summer of 191978 . And the , the , the whole series of , of people opposed to Washington's , uh , maintaining the command of the continental Army . Uh , trying to unseat him , go behind his back . That , that whole thing is kind of combined in what we now call the Conway cabal . And over the years , historians , I mean , going back to the 1920s and 1930s through very recently have had different opinions on On what that was . And there's kind of two facets to it . Um , the , the , the , the , uh , what generated this opposition to Washington , which was , which was always somewhat under the table . Nobody wanted to come out and say , OK , George , you gotta go , or , or , you know , fire him or anything like that . Um , part of it was because um in the fall of '77 , While he was fighting General William Howe's army in the Philadelphia area and lost the Battle of Brandywine . The British captured Philadelphia , the largest city in America . And then , um , After initial success in October , October 4th , a German town wound up having to retreat , so not a lot of success there . In fact , At Brandywine , which is about 20 miles west of Philadelphia , Washington , because of poor scouting and intelligence , and perhaps his own decision making , Allowed the British to make a devastating flank march around his right flank . Well , that was the same thing that happened at Long Island , and so it looked like Washington hadn't learned any lessons . Now at the same time that Washington was unsuccessful , Horatio Gates was wildly successful in the Saratoga campaign because not only did they win the two battles at Saratoga , but the British Army , which consisted of British and Hessian troops of about Uh , roughly 6500 men , they had to surrender . And this was a tremendous victory , and this would soon lead to the French-American alliance . So all of a sudden , the , the most successful general in America was not George Washington , it was Horatio Gates . And around this time , Gates began to distance himself from Washington . And so there were several officers , and I'll be very succinct here , several officers , Horatio Gates , Thomas Mifflin , some others opposed to Washington , but even more so as , as , as the latest book on the Conway Cabal by Mark Lender has shown , I think it came out about 5 years ago , there was significant opposition in Congress , and there was a lot of people and a lot of letters , including some Virginians who Washington thought were his allies , Richard Henry Lee being the most surprising , and , but , but Washington was able to at Valley Forge , Washington was able to get rid of the , um , basically shunt off the officers who were a threat to him , uh , to different commands . Um , and it's a long story , but , and , but one of the things he did right is he invited a committee from Congress to visit the camps at Valley Forge to see for themselves what was going on and to come up with a new A logistical plan to get the men fed and clothed and trained and what have you . So he was able to kind of maneuver out of that . And after that , there was never any question for the rest of the war who was going to be the commander of the army . There was never . Yeah , it's clear his leadership made an impact , um , and just Just to cover briefly here because we're getting short on time , but Newburgh , uh , in 1783 , can you just talk about the impact of who he was on that Newburgh conspiracy that took place ? Maybe just set up what the conspiracy was and , and . And just the force of , of him being who he was quelling that conspiracy . Sure , so the Newburgh was where the main camp of the Continental Army was . So the fighting was over . Peace negotiations were going on in Paris . They were just kind of waiting it out there , and what happened was the officers of the Continental Army had basically gotten very upset and agitated over whether or not they were going to get paid , whether they were going to get some kind of settlement at the end of the war in either money or land grants , and and Several of them started agitating and without Washington's consent , a letter was circulated . Turns out the letter was written by a staff member of Horatio Gates , and , and so there was a meeting called for the big , the big hall that was built at Newburgh to talk about what the plan of action was going to be and And one of the , one of the possibilities was that the officers , or some of them were going to threaten Congress with bringing the army down to Philadelphia . and demanding their benefits , which Washington regarded as just absolutely the worst possible thing . Well , Washington got wind of the meeting . And um he called his own meeting to happen a few days before the scheduled one . And uh he read a letter to them that more like a speech , a short speech , and reminded them that their sacrifices were honorable and , and that they had done great things and that the war was almost over and that playing around with the army was a dangerous game . And there came the moment where , and remember , like I said , he had only been home one time for 4 days in the entire war . This is a guy who'd been Washington had served from June of 1775 , and now it's November of 1983 . No one had made more sacrifices than him , and he takes out his letter . And um I'm , I'm paraphrasing here , but , but he , as he's , as he's reading it , he takes out a pair of spectacles , and no one had ever seen him wear spectacles before . And he takes them out and puts them on his , uh , you know , his nose and , and says to the men , um , I'm afraid that I have not only grown old , but I'm going blind in the service to my country . And that just shut everything down right there , right ? Who's who's gonna oppose that , right ? That it's , yeah , and so it it all , it went away and of course the , the treaty was signed in November and . New York was evacuated in November and it was , it was a dramatic moment and it could have been worse . I mean it could and it solidified Washington's belief and then later , later in the Constitution , the civilian control of the military , not the military threatening , because there , there had been some grumblings earlier in the war too , and , and , and , and Alexander Hamilton started getting his nose in that business and And Washington had warned him then , not in 1783 , but a few years beforehand , uh , or a year and a half beforehand , he said the army is a dangerous thing to play with , and that , that kind of , that kind of got Hamilton away from the The business of trying to use it to threaten Congress . Uh , yeah , it's , it's a fascinating story and really a testament to the , the , the , the leadership , uh , the respect that these generals had for him , uh , especially by that time , uh , uh , at the end of the war . But could you just quickly summarize then , what are some of these key lessons that uh about um Washington as a leader , um , that come out of the war or things that we can use today ? Well , the thing that jumps to my mind is Washington set the example . Um , many , many times now , you know , in , in the field , especially if the Army's going to be camped for some time , it , it makes sense back then in the 18th century , even in Civil War , um . A commander's got a lot of things going on . He needs to house his staff . He needs to have places to meet with officers and plan and things like that . So , but many times , many times Washington did not occupy a building or , or a house or , or something . He , he camped in the field . Um , he , he endured what the men did . He did not go home , and , and toughed it out and found a way to solve problems . He was also very patient . He , you know , I think there was an expectation once the French alliance was signed that the French would come over and there'd be 11 or two major battles or campaigns , American victory , but it , but , but it was , it was a good 4 years , solid 4 years before that happened , and he was patient . He was diplomatic . Um , he , uh , he must have learned that , I think , during his French and Indian War years , but also he served as a Virginia delegate to the Virginia House of Burgesses for over 10 years and saw how coalitions come together and diplomacy works and , and getting , getting people on your side just like any , any congressman or senator needs to to know or or . Uh , in business too , right , you gotta , you , you can't just come in and , and say my way or the highway and , um , elaborate and graduate , yeah , yeah . Uh , and , and Washington was able to do that . I think he was a pretty good judge of character , um , and some of the , some of the officers that he chose to elevate . Uh , were in the end very successful . Henry Knox , um , Nathaniel Greene , um . They were good officers . Anthony Wayne , and he was able to eventually either sideline , retire , or get rid of the ones that were not getting things done . John Sullivan , Israel Putnam . These , these folks were , were , were good patriots and , and , and solid campaigners , but They , they , they really weren't the um Philip Schuyler is another one too that . But uh yeah , I think those are the those those are the kind of lessons that that that leaders in the military today and even the civilian world can can take to heart . Well , John , thank you so much . This is , uh , this has been fascinating . I , you know , as we start our our season . Three here , um , and it's still a big focus on the Revolutionary War 250th . It's good to know a little bit more how , uh , have some more insights here about General Washington . But before we close , it is time for our segment called Huzzah Trivia . So is there some piece of trivia that you can share about General Washington ? Well , I would , um , Washington during the war rode , uh , several horses , um . And oftentimes he would have 3 or 4 available to his for his use because he didn't want to ride the same horse every day to wear them down . Uh , but 11 was the most ridden , particularly during combat operations . And um , Uh , this horse was the better one of the 3 or 4 that he kept , uh , that was not frightened of cannon fire . OK , yeah , and , and , uh , that horse's name was Nelson . Nelson , really Nelson , yeah , I'm not sure where that comes from . Obviously it can't be it can't be Horatio Nelson , too soon . And um so I'm not sure where that comes from . Oh , Nelson is a , excuse me , Nelson is a , you know , a very , very rich um . Uh , uh , uh Virginia Yorktown Tidewater family that that went way back and was on the Virginia council , it's possible he might have acquired the horse from that family . I , I just don't know . By any chance you do you know what type of horse it was or any records ? No , I don't . I do not know that because , yeah , I didn't know if there was a type of horse . in general that was less afraid of of the cannon fire or it was just really um I don't know you have to wait on , uh , yeah , I had to figure that out horse by horse I guess but no that's that that's cool . So Nelson , Nelson , uh , was his , his main horse so very cool . Well , good . Well , thank you so much , John . I , I , I appreciate , uh , all your insights today . Uh , about General George Washington . Well , thanks for having me . Oh yeah , no , my , my pleasure , and I'm , I'm sure as we continue on with the Revolutionary War , we'll , uh , we'll find , uh , more topics for you to come in and , and join us again with . Be happy to do so . Thank you . And folks , if you'd like to learn more about . General George Washington , the American Revolution , or learn more about Army history in general , then I encourage you to explore our website at history.army.mil . And if you want to experience Army history every day , then visit our social media sites on Facebook and Instagram . So thanks for joining us today on the United States Army History and Heritage podcast . For the Center of Military History , I'm Lee Reynolds , and until next time , we're history . The views expressed in this podcast reflect those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views , policies , or opinions of the US Army or Department of Defense . For more information about the Army's proud history and heritage , go to history.army.mil .