During the Revolutionary War , many American soldiers and leaders became generationally famous for their exploits on the battlefield , but none were more hated and reviled as Benedict Arnold . So who was this man who served America so well in the 1st 5 years of the war ? What drove him to turn his back on General Washington and the cause for liberty ? For answers to these questions and more Army history insights . Stay tuned . Welcome to the US Army History and Heritage podcast , the official podcast of the United States Army Center of Military History . The Center of Military History writes and publishes the Army's official history , manages the US Army Museum Enterprise , and provides historical support throughout the US Army . Hello everyone and welcome to the United States Army History and Heritage podcast . I'm Lee Reynolds , the strategic communications officer for the Center of Military History . In this episode , we're discussing perhaps the most hated American during the Revolutionary War , General Benedict Arnold . Joining me for this discussion is historian Doctor Susan Brynn Long . Welcome , Brynn . Thank you , Lee . It's great to be back . Yeah , thank you . Yeah , you've been a recurring guest and , uh , you know , you bring a lot to the table , so I'm really excited to talk to this very interesting topic with you . Uh , but before we get into that , let me just , uh , remind folks who you are . So Doctor Susan Brynlong was a 2024 , 2025 Charles Young Fellow at the US Army Center of Military History . Her current monograph project is on American prisoner administration in the Revolutionary War , and you can learn more about that from a previous podcast , so you can look that up . She previously taught at the University of Delaware on colonial and revolutionary America and American military history and is currently an instructor of history at the University of Nebraska at Omaha . All right , well , you know this is a topic Benedict Arnold that um . You know , a lot of people , uh , really don't think about , right ? So , Benedict Arnold , he , he , he , he , um , he rose to prominence during the patriot cause , and when people hear his name today , All they think about is , is the treachery , right ? His , his name is synonymous with traitor , but people don't realize what an effective general he was initially in the war . So , let's talk about , first of all , let's set this up . How did he rise to prominence in the patriot cause ? Yeah , you know , you're so rightly that when people hear the name Benedict Arnold , it's , it's almost synonymous with his treason . And , you know , last time I was on the podcast , I talked about the seizure of Fort Ticonderoga , and I've long been interested in Benedict Arnold , but coming on the podcast the last time and talking about his engagement there with uh Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys got me even more curious about him and about his origins . So , so there's a few things to say . First of all , so he's born in 1741 . And his father is named Benedict Arnold as well . His , his mother is Hannah Waterman , yeah , and this family went through a lot of hardships , a lot of hardships . Um , he's born in Connecticut and he's going to lose 5 siblings , um , over the course of his young life , yeah , to yellow fever . So by the time he's getting to teenagehood , it's just him and his sister , um , Hannah , who are still surviving . So the family had a lot of hardships , and this leads to some financial hardships as well . Um , they , the father is a , is a merchant , and he doesn't spend his money very well , and this leads to Arnold as a young boy having to spend actually a lot of winters away from his parents , you know , with extended family , and as the family is continuing to fall into sort of financial disgrace and his father is in debt , um , he , he endures a lot of public humiliations , you know , they're in a pretty strictly Christian . Uh , Connecticut at this time , and so it's quite embarrassing for him publicly to be associated with this family that has fallen into debt and his father , who is arrested a couple of times and is caught publicly drunk on different occasions . So , you know , he's he's got a difficult Beginning , and we can see really early in his life that he's trying to maybe get some military glory under his belt to overcome his his familial troubles . There's , he might have even tried to enlist in the Connecticut militia as early as the age of 14 , um , but he was an apprentice at the time . Again , his parents , you know , it kind of put him off with family acquaintances because they were struggling for money a lot . And so one of these positions that he ends up in is being essentially indentured to local apothecaries , and They say heck no , you know , we don't want our indentured servant to go and serve . But in the age of 16 , this is when the French are going to besiege Fort William Henry during the Seven Years' War . There's going to be a huge influx of New Englanders , young men from New England that enlist in the militia service . And so that's when Arnold will actually finally get to enlist . He's finally allowed to enlist , and he's going to get his first taste of military service . A lot of young men from his town , which is Norwich , Connecticut , are going to go . A lot of these are going to be poor guys like himself , and he , he is going to enter the service with a big burst of sort of . A patriotism for defending the British against the against the French , but he never actually sees any fighting , so he's he's called up , but he doesn't see any fighting , but he gets his first taste of military greatness . Once he's out of the Seven Years' War and he's back into the apothecary and he's continuing to learn trade as a merchant , his parents are both going to die in pretty close succession . And in 1767 is when he'll marry his first wife , Margaret Mansfield , and she's popularly known as Peggy , which yes , is confusing because the second wife is also going to be Peggy . Yeah , right , it's a little confusing . So it's just like the Martha's , you know , Jefferson's wife was Martha , and so was Washington's wife . Um , so he's going to launch at that point . He's gotten all this training as an apothecary , so he'll start his own apothecary business , get busy with the same mercantile work that his father had been engaged in . He's going to travel extensively in New England , and Quebec , a little bit in the Caribbean , you know , Connecticut trade is doing very well towards the end of the 18th century , and this is sort of where we start to see Arnold becoming a little bit more revolutionary because he's going to be affected by those taxes of the pre-revolutionary era , right , the stamp tax and the sugar tax and the towns and duties . These are going to be felt personally by Arnold , who will eventually become a son of Liberty and then a smuggler , as many famous revolutionaries cut their teeth in a similar manner . And by the time we get to 1775 , Arnold is going to be chosen as the commander of one of the militia units in Connecticut which is called the Governor's Guards , and it is in that capacity that he will march and officially join the American cause at Cambridge , which is the headquarters of course , of the American forces . Um , at the start of the revolution . So that is his background in terms of how he gets involved . And then as , as the revolutionary , uh , the revolution starts , uh , he's eager to get started , as you said , he , he's in , in Cambridge , and he proposes a plan . Right , for , uh , uh , about Fort Ticonderoga . Can you talk to us about that ? Yeah , so while he's in Cambridge with his men , uh , from Connecticut , it's , this is when he hears that the Connecticut legislature is , is starting to think about making an offensive , and that's what I talked about last time I was on . It's like , You know , we can't just sit here like sitting ducks and let the British come after us . What if we go take Ticonderoga ? What if we go take Fort Crown Point so that we can protect any sort of northerly offensive that the British might mount ? So he hears the Connecticut legislature is thinking about this . He ends up actually , you know , getting a commission from Massachusetts . He goes directly to Massachusetts provincial Congress to get a commission because Connecticut's sort of already settled on who they want to send . And so again , this is a guy who's looking for military glory . He's looking for a way in . Massachusetts gives him a commission as a colonel in the service of the state . They give him , you know , the authority to command about 400 troops . As he is enlisting those guys from Massachusetts , that's when he hears like , oh shoot , Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys are already heading to go take Ticonderoga . I don't want to lose my military glory . Um , so he , he rushes , you know , not with nearly 400 men enlisted under his command . He's going to rush to catch up with them . Um , he and Alan , of course , are going to really quarrel over who is in charge , and then Ticonderoga happens . This is a success , notwithstanding the quarrel that the two of them have . Crown Point happens . There's a secondary engagement at Fort St . John . So Arnold sort of distinguishes himself militarily , but Alan and Arnold are feuding over who is now in control of these forts . And so the Massachusetts legislature at this point is actually going to dispatch representatives to Assess all of that Arnold has done with their resources and their money and ultimately they will censure him , which is essentially an 18th century form of like public reprimand basically for his misuse of of those funds that they gave him and uh this is really I would say more about Massachusetts and Connecticut feuding with each other . We're in the early origins of like sort of interstate conflict about who is gonna have what role in the revolutionary effort . Um , it's , I would say it's less about Arnold himself , but Massachusetts ends up basically telling Arnold , hey , if you're gonna stay out there at Crown Point , you have to subordinate yourself to the Connecticut commander if you want to stay . And if you , if you don't want to subordinate yourself , then you gotta come on back . And so Arnold is very offended at this . He is very sensitive to any . Sort of slights on his honor , um , and this is when he's gonna actually return , um , and go get new marching orders as we , as we see . Right , yeah , and then , uh , um , we've got the Battle of Quebec that comes up . So what's his role in that ? He is going to go back to Cambridge , basically , you know , he's upset with what happened , uh , with , with Tyon Ion . Point and the feud with Massachusetts . So he doesn't want this commission from Massachusetts anymore . He would rather go and join the coalescing Continental Army , which is now , of course , under the command of George Washington . So he's going to go back to Cambridge , which is where he started . He gets a commission as colonel in the Connell Army . And again , this is where he's going to start meeting Washington , and they're going to have a relationship . And Washington sees a lot of promise in him as a military commander , and he chooses him to command an expedition up the Kennebec River to siege Quebec . And you know , as we talked about in that previous appearance that I made , the first time that the Americans sort of begin . Uh , advancing against Canada and against these forts that are within spitting distance . Um , that's kind of rogue action , if you will , because that's Massachusetts acting on its own . That's Connecticut , that's Ethan Allen , the Green Mountain Boys . But once the Second Continental Congress starts meeting on May 10th , 1775 , you know , now we actually have a power behind the throne . Now we have a continental Army . Now we're going to have , uh , you know , a political background to that army . And so now we're going to a secondary attempt , much more organized on Canada . And of course the two major cities we're going to go after , it's Quebec and Montreal . And so again , George Washington sees who can do this , this really strong , you know , Connecticut guy who is a merchant and who has had experience piloting vessels , captaining vessels in his capacity as a merchant , right ? Like he's got all this experience . He was selected as the commander of The Connecticut militia . So Washington understands this . This is somebody who commands respect from his men , and this is going to be a difficult expedition to send him up this water route , essentially water and land route up towards Quebec to siege Quebec , and he gives them 1100 men , and these are largely men drawn from New England , riflemen , musketry , and he says , you know , go on up and see if you can't aid Richard Montgomery in attacking Quebec . And This Kennebec River expedition is awful . It goes from September to November of 1776 , you know , 1100 guys , not enough food to sustain them . The ships that they're taking upriver are , you know , these batteau are currently battling against the current . They are getting all busted up against the rocks . Having to portage them , so you have to actually carry them and carry your contents on their shoulders , you know , the rapids are really tough , and Arnold distinguishes himself , you know , he had actually marched this route during the Seven Years' War , and so , yeah , so he , he kind of knows , like he's been here before and Uh , we end up seeing basically by the time they get up to , uh , to , to Quebec , there's only about 600 men at that 1100 left and did they die , and turn around a lot of them turned around , yeah , a lot of them turned around . They were like , we don't want any part of this , you know , we're just like we're running out of water . It's a tough , tough hike up there . It's a tough hike . I mean this is notoriously difficult , you know , and , but , but Arnold really is going to avail himself of indigenous . And his guides , he helps personally to repair some of these vessels , and even as supplies are running short , he's going to be overseeing sort of the shortening of rations to make them stretch further . I mean , he distinguishes himself as somebody who can endure in difficult circumstances , even though a lot of his men are going to turn back when they get to the to the Quebec and they get to Richard Montgomery , they've traveled actually 350 miles . So it's a it's an overland expedition . It's a it is a it is a it's a water based expedition , but it's , it's constantly difficult . It's double the distance that they thought they were gonna be traveling because the the maps are inaccurate , um , but General Montgomery is . Very impressed with him as well , and we see that Arnold is here going to be promoted for his valor in the Kennebec expedition . He'll be Brigadier General at this point , and he will aid General Montgomery in attacking Quebec , which of course is not a successful engagement , in which course he will actually be shot in the leg . And this is an injury that will lay him low for several months and will later come back into play in his later story . But , you know , there's other things you can talk about with Arnold in the Canadian campaign . He , um , I think , comports himself admirably at what's called the Battle of the Cedars in May of 1776 . He , he sort of gets experience with military negotiation and negotiations over prisoners of war in that conflict . Another sort of lesser known battle that takes place is called the Battle of Valcour Island . This is actually during the retreat from Quebec , so things aren't going very well . Uh , October 1776 , um , there's a narrow strait that's between New York and what's called Valcour Island , and this is very important for the Americans to continue defending Lake Champlain . Um , and we talked about during that previous appearance that , you know , Lake Champlain is a really crucial through line for that upper Hudson River Valley , right ? So you want to make sure you control it . And basically what Arnold's trying to do is prevent the British from taking Fort Ticonderoga back and from taking Fort Crown Point back . And so he is going to be really instrumental in maneuvering a small outnumbered American fleet on Lake Champlain , and he does ultimately get bested by the British , but he succeeds in delaying the British advance for the 1776 season because we're right there in October . We're right there at the beginning of winter season , so . He is able to delay the British advance and of course they won't take Crown Point in Ticonderoga until the summer of 1777 . So yeah , he took some bold action . He took some really , some really bold action . Valcour Island is , is just incredible that , you know , the , it was almost a big , a big loss for the Americans , but he turned that really into . Um , I don't know if you can call it a , a , a victory , but , uh , he , he turned that into a , a very positive thing for the continent . He did , yeah , he , so he's very bold in , in , in Canada for sure , yeah . How would you really kind of like assess , uh , Arnold's overall military abilities , um , compared to other continentals like Washington or Green or Morgan or even Gates . Yeah , you know , Gates is very hesitant . I think we'll see that when we talk about Saratoga . So not a lot of love lost for Gates with me , but you know , I think that each , each , each continental Army commander , sort of brings their own strengths to the table and definitely relative to people like Washington and Green . You know , Arnold is bringing that aggression . He is so aggressive . He is enterprising . He's regularly reported at Valcour Island and elsewhere as being personally responsible for aiming the guns and for , you know , being hands on with his men . He is not afraid to lead from the front , and we continue to see this throughout his military career , even when he switches to the British side . So he's always aggressive and is always leading from the front , and he's quite enterprising . Like he thinks of things that Those who are above him don't think of , and I think we're comparing that to other leaders , you know , Washington has a different set of skills . He , he's really focused on his strategic vision of avoiding annihilation , of outlasting and keeping his army intact , you know , that's just not really Benedict Arnold's job , so you can't fault him for being that more hesitant commander and more yielding to advice the way that Washington was . And of course Green , I think , you know , he's , he's our militia genius . He is somebody who is clued into the militia as a force , and he's somebody who's who's great with logistics and planning , and we see this in his capacity as quartermaster . Arnold , where we see him sort of similarly failing maybe in those administrative roles , at least when he's commander of Philadelphia . Um , he is never not going to distinguish himself on a battlefield when it comes to tactical decisions and anticipating the enemy movement . Yeah , the term that comes to mind for me is audacity . You know , it's like what Napoleon once said , audacity , audacity , audacity , always audacity , and , and . And aggressive leaders like Arnold , that's , that's what they show , you know , uh , someone like Patton comes to mind , um , or Custer actually , uh , throughout his career , and that's really what tipped , um , or , or made the difference , uh , for them , um , their aggressiveness on the battlefield , things that others wouldn't have done . Completely agree , yeah , but now you mentioned Saratoga , so this is . Huge American victory . Uh , if you could talk a little bit about that and how , uh , Arnold contributed to the outcome of these engagements . Absolutely , yeah . So Saratoga , of course , this is the British Army's sort of campaign in and around New York to try to divide New England from the middle and southern colonies , which has been the British strategic vision from the very beginning is like New England , you are the troublemakers , let's just cut this rebellion off at the head . So , uh , General Burgoyne , John Burgoyne , is going to head down from Canada via Champlain , and he's taken about 7 to 8000 men with him , and George Washington's in Philadelphia . He is more concerned about General Howe than he is about General Burgoyne . And so he says , you know what , Arnold is this really aggressive field commander . I've seen him distinguish himself in the previous Canadian campaigns . Um , let me go ahead and send him up there to try to help out my commander of the Northern Department , General Horatio Gates , right ? So I think this is really Washington showing that he knows that Gates . is more timid and Arnold is more aggressive . So let me send Arnold up there to maybe balance out some of Gates' worse sins in that regard . Now Arnold and Gates really don't like each other . Gates had recently replaced Philip Schuyler as the commander of the Northern Department . You know , Skyler is sort of seen as being responsible for losing Fort Ticonderoga , so . Not super thrilled with Arnold because Arnold is aligned with Skyler and Arnold has friends who are Skyler's friends . So there's already these interpersonal animosities when Benedict Arnold arrives with Benjamin Lincoln to support Gates in confronting Burgoyne as he's moving down through New York . The first engagement in Saratoga is called the Battle of Freeman's farm . And this happens on September 19th , 1777 . And Gates basically gives the left wing of the American defenses to Arnold . Um , and I think we see in this that Gates appreciates that Arnold is a very effective field commander , because on the left side is where we have a very important set of heights , where , you know , Arnold is basically trusted with control , and then Gates is going to be over on the right . And um Burgoyne is trying to basically pull a flanking maneuver . He's trying to pull what we see Cornwallis and Howe pulling further south in the Battle of Brandywine . He's going to like , let me see if I can outflank these guys , and Arnold sees it or he , he sees it , he , he anticipates it . He moves his troops into position . And is basically going to kind of contest Burgoynes' flanking maneuver , and he's going to direct reinforcement Patriot troops into position to continue reinforcing that left . Now , Freeman's Farm ultimately is a British victory . So technically they take the field , um , but they sustained very heavy casualties , about 600 casualties out of that original army of 7 , 8000 . Yeah , it's big , right ? And , and it only about 300 on the American side . And again , a lot of those casualties are because Arnold is so strongly reinforcing that left side . And Gates doesn't give him credit when he is talking to Congress about how this battle goes . Gates is like , well , you know , he doesn't really mention his , his involvement , Arnold's involvement . And so things lull , there's an interlude between the two battles of Saratoga . And in that interlude , it slowly dawns on Burgoyne that the new commander , Henry Clinton of British forces is not going to come and help him . He's kind of surrounded by the Americans . They've taken the field , but everybody's sort of at a stalemate , and he ends up having to go on short rations because there's not enough food for his force , and of course they've sustained . 600 casualties in the first engagement . Meanwhile , Washington has actually been sending men to reinforce the Continental Army under Gates and Arnold . And so now , instead of 9000 , which we have at Freeman's Farm , now we've got 12,000 . And Burgoyne's like , Whoa , I'm outnumbered , but I can't retreat . That's going to be disgraceful . And so we see that the second Battle of Saratoga , which is the Battle of Venus Heights . General Arnold , who at this point had been so disgraced by Horatio Gates' failing to mention his involvement to Congress , had kind of thrown a fit and sequestered himself in his tent , will actually take a surprise leading role in the second engagement and personally lead charges that ultimately break the British defensive positions in two crucial redoubts that they have established to try to hold their ground . Now , unfortunately for Arnold , he is acting against the direct orders of Gates at this point because Gates had become fed up with his intransigence , had become fed up with him being fed up , and said , you know what , you're , you're going to have to sit this one out . Arnold doesn't listen to him . Arnold says , Nope , I'm gonna , I'm going to , you know . By order . Yeah , there is , there it is . And he rides onto the field and , and , you know , personally is going to lead the American attack on the British positions to ultimately break that stalemate that I was just talking about . So , unfortunately , in the course of that engagement , he's going to be severely wounded in the leg , and it's the same leg that he was injured at in Quebec . So , um , again , Yates is going to take most of the public credit . Saratoga , of course , is an important turning point in the war , but Arnold feels very undervalued and overlooked for his important contributions in that conflict . Yeah , so I mean , the value of this , it would eventually convince the French to join the effort , which , you know , later on would make , make the big difference in American success . So a huge victory here for a lot of reasons at Saratoga and Um , without Arnold's leadership and his audacity on the battlefield , we may not have had that victory . Exactly , exactly . So if Arnold with his wounded leg had gone home , had taken a retirement , or , or , or , or , or whatever , he would have been remembered . How ? I think that he would be remembered as a hero for sure , and he , he personally reflected on this . I mean , when he's laying on his back recovering from that second injury , he says . You know , if I , if I had died , then Horatio Gates , you know , would not have been able to to cover up my sacrifice . So I think he would be grouped with figures like Nathaniel Greene , uh , Daniel Morgan , you know , as a just a brilliant combat commander . I think his leg wound , which was already symbolic , I mean , we've got a statue of his leg in Saratoga , I think it would have , it would have really cemented him sort of a martyr . Yeah , the boot monument at Saratoga , right ? It honors his wounded leg , but not his name for his for his traitor , his treason . So I think he would represent somebody who's a sacrifice , somebody who had courage and who really displayed that decisive military leadership that we needed to secure American independence . I remember him that way , Lee , as you know , but not many others . I know him that way . But as fate would have it , uh , there was more to the story . So , uh , talk to us now about Arnold's experiences , um , in Philadelphia , and you could say , in a way , and I'll , I'll , I'll let you say if this is true or not . This is kind of like the beginning of his downfall here . Um , uh , he sent to Washington selects him as a military commander , um , um , of Philadelphia . So , what were his responsibilities and how effective was he then as he was basically an administrator . So , what was that like for him ? Yeah , so Arnold is sent to Philly to be military commander there after the British evacuate in June '78 . He's stopped on Arnold , really thinks that he's done great service , and he understands that he needs time to convalesce . So he goes to Philadelphia . He'll be military commander , and essentially his role is to maintain order in the city , you know , manage relations with civilians and former loyalists , kind of oversee military supplies , these sorts of things . But during his time in Philly , he's going to live quite lavishly , and his wife has died by this point . She left him with the care of 3 young sons , and they had been cared for by Hannah , his sister , up to the middle part of the Revolutionary War . But it is in Philadelphia that he begins to socialize with prominent , sort of loyalist leaning elite families , and this includes the Shippen family and one Miss Peggy Shippen . So he will marry her , and she will assume the care of his three sons , and they live again , quite lavishly in Philadelphia . And it's all this lavish living that catches the attention of Joseph Reed , who's the president of the Pennsylvania Supreme Executive Council , and who has a lot of friends in high places , and he is going to bring charges of corruption against , against Benedict Arnold . So , um , these court martial proceedings are going to bring a lot of infamy to Arnold's name , and again he's very sensitive to slights of honor . He had already fought a duel in his younger life , um , due to his slight of honor , yeah , and of course it ends up digging up a bunch of other stuff . It's like , well , what did he do in Montreal ? Was he maybe taking goods from the locals in Montreal , you know , was that for public service or was that for Arnold's service , right ? Um . And so ultimately what this court finds is , you know , that he's going to be acquitted . They sort of see like , you know , you've maybe played a little fast and loose with your funds and with our funds , but they're also aware there's this awareness in the proceedings that he had to conduct himself in ways that maybe would be interpreted as lavish during a period of wartime shortage , and , and he had certain obligations as As a military governor , if you will , of Philadelphia to conduct himself in polite society , but He is going to be formally reprimanded by George Washington . Um , that is the decision of the court martial . Washington is reluctant to do this , but who it hurts most of all is Arnold and his reputation . He feels deeply humiliated by this reprimand from Washington , and that sort of sets into motion the unfortunate series of events that we know follows . Yeah , so let's , let's talk about that . So after Philadelphia , he gets , uh , he gets a new command . Um , up at West Point , and so based on everything that's been happening , just talk us through this . How , basically , how did Arnold's treason actually develop and , and then occur ? Yeah , so , you know , Arnold had been , unfortunately , much like his father , in and out of debt during his life . Um , so he had kind of been doing well at times and then at other times really not doing well , and by the time we get to 1779 , 17 1780 , and the end of those court proceedings , Arnold is deeply in debt . He is really angry about not being recognized for his service at Saratoga , Valcour Island , etc . And he is now married to this woman , Peggy Shippen , who was of a very loyalist leaning family , and she has certain demands as well , they both do , of what life should look like and what certain comforts they should be afforded . And so Arnold feels as though he's not been honored for his service and Congress is not going to pay him back for a lot of these debts he's incurred in the performance of his duties . Um , and it is at this time that he begins a secret correspondence with the British through intermediaries . Mainly , he's going to be corresponding with the Major , British Major John Andre , who is 1st and 2nd Lieutenant in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers , and he's going to be lieutenant in the 7th Regiment of Foot . And he's somebody with such a magnetic personality that he ends up becoming a personal aide de camp to Clinton , to Henry Clinton . And so he's promoted to Major , and it's there that we see . Andre beginning this correspondence with with Arnold and engaging in intelligence operations . So these were normal intelligence and espionage is normal and expected within the , you know , context of 18th century military proceedings . Um , but it's , it's obviously a very dangerous line of work to get involved in , and the Americans knew this , right ? Nathan Hale famously is captured out of uniform , committing espionage , and he's going to be hanged for that offense . So both Andre and Arnold are playing a very dangerous game , but we see that in the course of their correspondence , which is done . In code , so that if they're ever intercepted , Arnold's treason will not be revealed . Arnold does though promise that he will give control of West Point , which is , of course , a crucial American fort , right on the Hudson River . He will give that to the British in exchange for a payment of £20,000 and a commission in the British Army . So never not pursuing that rank and that military glory . So in September of 1780 , Andre and Arnold are going to meet secretly to finalize their plans . The extent to which Peggy was involved in the treason is still hotly debated among historians . More likely than not , she was very involved in it , helped as a person who was conveying letters back and forth between the men . She knew Benedict , she knew John Andre personally . She had a friendship with him . So likely she was involved in this treason . Um , but it is when Andre is actually on land , that he will be captured by Americans . Um , and they have the forethought to kind of search his person , more likely they were trying to rob him . These were kind of ruffian types , and they just happened to find the plans to West Point . And this is , this is quite incriminating . Um , so a messenger tells Arnold , you know , Audrey has been captured . And he knows that Andre's capture means that it is only a matter of time before his own treason is revealed . And so he will flee to the same British ship that had dropped off Andre , which is the HMS Vulture on the Hudson River , and he's going to get on board that ship . Andre is left behind , of course , and through a dramatic series of events will be tried and executed as a spy . Meanwhile , Arnold will deliver himself to the British and receive that commission . Um , in the British Army , so he gets what he wants , but the tragedy , I think of Arnold's treason , there's many pieces of it , but one piece of tragedy is that he's really never going to gain the full trust or distinction that he always sought . Um , and he , you know , in the British circles , he's really going to be reviled for the death of Andre because he was so beloved by the British high command , not least of all by Clinton . Yeah , that's interesting . I , I didn't realize that he was reviled that much by the British . I mean , clearly by the Americans , but um , Um , yeah , I , I just didn't know that . But let's , let's talk about Washington . What , what's his reaction to this ? He , he , here's a man that , that trusted , uh , Arnold and , um , you know , try to do everything he could for him , and , and even though other generals didn't want him , uh , didn't like , uh , Arnold , Washington stood up for him . So what was Washington's reaction to all this ? I think he feels personally betrayed , um , and we see this in his activities . I mean , he demands that . Uh , Arnold be captured . He wants Arnold to be captured , and I think he , he hates Arnold for two reasons . First of all , how publicly this disgrace becomes , and , and how for the way that it reflects upon the strength of the army itself , because this is a huge , you know , moment of like , Things the emperor has no clothes if this man who is so close to the commander has betrayed him , but the other thing he hates Arnold for is that this is going to saddle Washington with the guilt of the execution of John Andre . And he understands that that's something that is very divisive among even , even Americans who are privy to what's going on , you know , feel sympathy for Andre , and he's seen as a gentleman and a scholar and somebody who is very sort of poetic in his ways , and , and this is something that Washington also resents Arnold . For is it makes the army look weak , it makes Washington look foolish , and it makes Washington look vengeful that he , he does decide to carry through the execution of John Andre , which is something that he is going to be , you know , really hated for by the British high command , almost as much as , you know , Arnold is , because he , even by the British is seen as somebody who's not trustworthy and somebody who is duplicitous , right ? Like he doesn't come over as the big hero that everyone . You know , that he thought everyone would receive him as . And yet the British do give him um some commands , don't they ? He continues to fight against the Americans . Yeah , so he's commissioned as a brigadier general in the British Army . So that's what he was promised . That's what he gets . He does get financial compensation , but it's less than he hoped for because he tried to deliver West Point , but that doesn't go over well with the whole Andre getting captured . Um , and so he's put in command of the American Legion , which is a , it's a cavalry and infantry regiment , and it's organized in October of 1780 , just a couple months after Arnold makes good his escape , and he's going to be very active in recruiting efforts , and this is recruiting among Americans . So he's actually trying to get other Americans to do what he just did . In 1781 , he's going to conduct a series of destructive raids on various supply depots and infrastructure in Virginia . Um , really trying to destabilize the region before Cornwallis's campaign , and of course we know how that turns out , um , but he's very active in places like Richmond and Portsmouth and Petersburg in Virginia . Um , and then he's also actually going to go back to his , his home state , his home colony . He goes to New London , Connecticut , also in 1781 , and will similarly raid in that town , burn a lot of the town , um . And inflict heavy American casualties at Fort Griswold . So this is just going to dig his hole deeper with the Americans . He's going to be , you know , again , very active in trying to recruit for his American Legion , and he's never really celebrated for these exploits because again , he's always going to be seen as duplicitous . Even once he moves to Britain and brings Peggy out to Britain to live with him , um , you know , he's never going to be accepted in high society . People see him as responsible for the death of John Andre . So overall , he's very militarily active , and he's sometimes very effective for the British , but that's never going to come with the status or honor or the trust that he really wants . in either Britain or America . So he goes back to Britain at the end of the war and um he never comes back to the United States , does he ? He later goes to Canada , but no , he's not gonna go back to the United States . What an interesting character and , and , and I thank you for coming on and talking about him because I , I , I think it's , it's worthwhile . People should know and understand who he was and , and , and , um , you know , the , the , the story behind uh the treason , but also that , yeah , he was . He , he , he , he was a hard patriot for um 1st 5 years of the war , so , um . And uh and and a successful military commander . Completely agree . Yeah , as , as events , as I said earlier , as fate goes , um , yeah , turned his back on , on , on the cause on Washington and to this day , his name is just synonymous with , with treason and treachery . Hey , before we close , it is time for our segment called huzzah trivia . So is there some piece of trivia that you can share about Benedict Arnold ? Lee , I'm gonna give you two pieces of trivia for the price of one . Uh , well , let's call it 3 . So the mini secret one at the beginning is that my dog is named Benedict Arnold . I think Benedict Arnold is a , is a is a because he turns his back on you a lot . Yes , he does . So look for my third book , which will be all about Benedict Arnold as a military tactician and really focusing on , on those elements of his , of his exploits . But no , two more serious pieces of trivia . First of all , is that , you know , Benedict Arnold is going to continue in not being very good with money , and he's going to live his , his later life in relative obscurity and also a lot of financial difficulty trying to reclaim his fortunes . And this is part of why we see that he is now buried next to a fish tank . He is in the basement of a church in Battersea , and there is a . A daycare that they do in that in that basement area now and so his headstone and Peggy Shippen's headstone , you can go visit them today . They are right next to the fish tank um and a children's daycare facility . Oh , interesting . OK , yeah , so there you go . And next time you know you , you find yourself in Battersea , London , please go and and say hello to Benedict Arnold . And then , uh , the other piece of information . that his great grandfather was actually associated with Roger Williams , who was one of the founders of Rhode Island and was , you know , similarly very aggressive and similarly not somebody who just went with the tide , you know , he was , he was kind of a forceful colonial in his own right and was huge in thinking about things like just war , and he was involved in things like the Pequot War , but was trying to defend indigenous peoples , so . You're not trying to say that Benedict Arnold and Roger Williams had exactly the same spirit , but there's definitely some interesting parallels when you start digging into the two figures , and his great grandfather was very closely associated with Roger Williams . So that's the second little piece of trivia . Well , great . Well , thank you so much , Brynn , for all of your insights today about Benedict Arnold . And if anyone wants to learn more about General Benedict Arnold , the Revolutionary War , or learn more about Army history in general , please explore our website at history.army.mil . And if you want to experience Army history every day , then visit our social media sites on Facebook and Instagram . So thanks for joining us today on the United States Army History and Heritage podcast . For the Center of Military History , I'm Lee Reynolds . And until next time , we're history . The views expressed in this podcast reflect those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views , policies , or opinions of the US Army or Department of Defense . For more information about the Army's proud history and heritage , go to history.army.mil .